This is a rather long conversation with a Mormon who calls himself a scholar. Lets see if this small town drop-out can stump the scholar.






arikinder: No thanks. Ill just stick with the Bible


scholarmormon: you are entitled to reject the word of God that is also stated in the Book of Mormon


arikinder: I would never reject the word of God. Its the word of the false prophet Joseph smith that I reject.


scholarmormon: the Book of Mormon is the most powerful testimony ever written about the divinity and atonement of our Lord Jesus Christ, it was written by ancient prophets of God. Smith only translated those records into English


arikinder: False.


scholarmormon: you are entitled to your own personal opinions


arikinder: How can you believe the crazy things your church teaches


scholarmormon: I am not talking about what my church teaches, I am talking strictly about the Book of Mormon teachings


arikinder: It doesn’t matter. The Bible says we are cursed if we add to or take away from it.


scholarmormon: it does matter, because the quote you are talking about was written when the bible did not exist a book


scholarmormon: as a book*


scholarmormon: therefore, it does not apply to the bible


arikinder: Oh but it does


scholarmormon: no, it does not


arikinder: Yes


scholarmormon: it applies to the Book of Revelation only


arikinder: Nope


arikinder: It applies to Gods Word


arikinder: So, what planet are you hoping to be God of some day?


scholarmormon: I can say more, John the apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation, wrote his gospel 6 years later


arikinder: There was never any evidence that Jesus came to the Americas


scholarmormon: if you are interpreting your quote correctly, then the Gospel According to John should not be included in the bible


arikinder: Josephs Egyptian symbols that he said were the writings of Abraham were proven to be nothing but a burial document


scholarmormon: because it was written 6 years after the warning of "do not add to the words of this book..."


arikinder: Nope


arikinder: Because it was the inspired word of God, the BOM was not


scholarmormon: the Bible did not exist in the year 80 AD when John wrote the Book of Revelation


scholarmormon: therefore his warning do not apply to the bible


scholarmormon: does not*


arikinder: Actually the letters did. Besides the difference is between the Word of God and something that has no proof


scholarmormon: the word of God is believed by faith not by any proof. Religion is not about proof, religion is a matter of faith


arikinder: Jesus preaching to the Indians lol. The Indians were lost tribes of Israel lol. This is all so insane


scholarmormon: you are entitled to your own personal opinions, no matter how wrong they may be


arikinder: They aren’t wrong. You follow the writings of a cult leader


scholarmormon: again, you are entitled to your own personal opinions


arikinder: not an opinion


scholarmormon: yes, it is your personal opinion


arikinder: then let me ask about the Mormon teachings


scholarmormon: I am talking about the Book of Mormon teachings


scholarmormon: ask me about the Book of Mormon teachings if you can


arikinder: I have every right to ask about your churches teachings. After all, your prophet founded the church.


scholarmormon: true, but I am here to discuss about the Book of Mormon doctrines not about my church doctrine


arikinder: where was Jesus born according to the BOM?


arikinder: ?


scholarmormon: the Book of Mormon does not give an accurate account about the birthplace of Jesus Christ


arikinder: why not. why is it not accurate if its the word of God?


scholarmormon: because the main fact is that he was born, not where he was born


scholarmormon: it does not matter where he was born, but it matters that he was born


arikinder: Actually, where he was born is part of Old Testament prophecy. Had he been born somewhere else He would have failed the requirements to be the messiah.


arikinder: If I cant trust the BOM on that, how could I trust it on anything else. After all, if part is wrong then none can be trusted.


scholarmormon: true, but the Old Testament is a record written by Jew prophets to their jew people


arikinder: And Jesus was the Jewish Messiah


scholarmormon: true


arikinder: He had to be born in Bethlehem to meet that requirement


arikinder: overlook my spelling


scholarmormon: the birth of Jesus Christ is the most important event in human history


arikinder: It is


scholarmormon: the Book of Mormon testifies that Jesus is the Lord


arikinder: But its wrong about where he was born. If the BOM were true, Jesus would not have been the messiah.


arikinder: Can you not see that if it is wrong on this point it cant be trusted.


scholarmormon: the Book of Mormon does not claim to be a perfect book, there is a disclaimer written by the last prophet who wrote the Book of Mormon in 620 AD it says "now if there are errors they are human errors,..."


arikinder: Then I cant trust any of it.


scholarmormon: hold on a sec


arikinder: If it can be wrong on something as important as Jesus’ birth place then I cant trust it on anything.


scholarmormon: And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.




First English edition published in 1830


arikinder: But that doesn’t help


scholarmormon: that is your personal opinion


scholarmormon: the bible is not perfect either


arikinder: Its not my opinion. I’m just saying that if its wrong on such an important detail how can I trust it on anything


scholarmormon: the bible does not hold the same doctrine everywhere in its pages


arikinder: But it does


scholarmormon: actually the bible has more contradictions than the Book of Mormon


arikinder: Whoa, you just questioned the word of God. Your in dangerous territory now.


arikinder: bye


scholarmormon: we believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly


arikinder: Bye


scholarmormon: and we all know there is no perfect translation of the bible


arikinder: I cant take any more from a false prophet that questions the word of God


arikinder: Oh but there is


arikinder: Bye false prophet


scholarmormon: the Spanish Version of the Bible is a better translation than KJV


scholarmormon: the KJV has some mistranslations of the Bible


arikinder: There is no doctrinal difference in any of the translations


scholarmormon: yes they are


arikinder: nope


scholarmormon: I read Spanish and English


arikinder: I don’t care


scholarmormon: you don’t want to see, it is different


arikinder: Buddy I couldn’t care less because we have the ancient texts and they match up


scholarmormon: I can prove to you that the Spanish and English versions teach two different doctrines about Jesus Christ


arikinder: false


arikinder: Bye false prophet


scholarmormon: learn Spanish first, then you can say "false"


arikinder: Bye false prophet


arikinder: Ill pray for ya


scholarmormon: who created this world?


scholarmormon: what does the bible say?


arikinder: Bye false prophet


scholarmormon: what does Genesis say?


arikinder: Bye false prophet


scholarmormon: it was God the Father or God the Son


scholarmormon: or both


arikinder: Bye false prophet


scholarmormon: you just simply don’t know


arikinder: Nice third grade tactic


arikinder: Nice third grade tactic


arikinder: Bye false prophet


scholarmormon: the Bible says that the serpent talked to Eve in the garden of Eden, why don’t serpents talk today?


arikinder: what an absurd statement


arikinder: That’s not a contradiction


scholarmormon: if a serpent could speak in the garden of eden, why serpents cannot speak today to humans


arikinder: Because the serpent was used by Satan


scholarmormon: maybe the serpent never spoke to Eve


arikinder: actually it did


scholarmormon: why doesn’t Satan use serpents or animals today to talk to people?


arikinder: Who knows. I’m interested in what God does, not what satan does


scholarmormon: the Bible says that near one of the rivers in that were close to the garden of eden there was gold


arikinder: Since where throwing out questions, what does ether 9:19 say


scholarmormon: where is the garden of eden today


scholarmormon: and where are the mines gold


arikinder: Don’t know.


scholarmormon: nobody knows


arikinder: But it doesn’t contradict


scholarmormon: it does


arikinder: no it doesn’t


scholarmormon: maybe the garden of eden was not where most people supposed it was


arikinder: Not finding something isn’t a contradiction. We have to find the location of the garden and then prove there is not gold to show a contradiction


scholarmormon: Gen 1:26 "Let us make man ..." who is "us"?


arikinder: Father, Son and Holy Spirit


scholarmormon: where in the bible does it say that


arikinder: In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. John 1:1


scholarmormon: John 1:1 refers to only one person


scholarmormon: the word


scholarmormon: the word was God


scholarmormon: just one person


arikinder: The Word was also Jesus


arikinder: word


scholarmormon: true


scholarmormon: the word is Jesus


scholarmormon: then Jesus created this world


arikinder: you get to ask all sorts of questions but none of mine are answered


scholarmormon: the point in here is that Jesus created this world alone according to John 1:1 and Genesis 1 says the Father did


arikinder: It doesn’t say He created it alone


scholarmormon: and Genesis 1:26 is written in plural


scholarmormon: and you say there is no contradiction


arikinder: that doesn’t contradict anything


arikinder: John 1:1 doesn’t say He created it alone


scholarmormon: yes, it says


scholarmormon: read it again


arikinder: I have


arikinder: many many times


arikinder: it doesn’t say it


scholarmormon: it says that Jesus is God the word and he created this world


scholarmormon: it does not include the Father


arikinder: God is a term that applies to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit


arikinder: your aren’t proving a thing


scholarmormon: well, you just don’t want to see


arikinder: It doesn’t exclude the father


arikinder: I want to see the truth. I just aint seeing any from you


scholarmormon: that is your personal opinion


arikinder: What I am see is that you use circular logic and refuse to answer my questions


scholarmormon: I did answer your question


arikinder: Not you haven’t


arikinder: I’ve asked what ether 9:19 says


scholarmormon: sorry , I missed that question


scholarmormon: I didn’t read it


arikinder: its ok


scholarmormon: let me read ether 9:9


arikinder: ok


scholarmormon: 9 And it came to pass that Nimrah gathered together a small number of men, and fled out of the land, and came over and dwelt with Omer.


arikinder: its 9:19


scholarmormon: ok


scholarmormon: hold on


scholarmormon: 19 And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.


arikinder: Do you see a problem with that verse yet


scholarmormon: 19 And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.


scholarmormon: apparently, yes


scholarmormon: you will say , there were no horses in America


arikinder: Or elephants


scholarmormon: true


scholarmormon: that is what we know


scholarmormon: but


scholarmormon: some archaeologist found some skeleton of horses in Argentina that are 10,000 of age


scholarmormon: 10,000 years


arikinder: But none in north america


scholarmormon: true, but the Book of Mormon events happened in South America


arikinder: what about elephants. Surely you don’t think we had elephants


scholarmormon: well, we still haven’t found any skeleton of elephants yet, but what if they are found later


arikinder: what if they aren’t


scholarmormon: by the way, the skeletons of horses were found 20 years ago


scholarmormon: before that time, we all knew Europeans brought horses to america


scholarmormon: but that has been proved wrong now


arikinder: okay


scholarmormon: the same will happen with the elephants


scholarmormon: the book of Mormon tells us about geographical changes and climate changes at the time of the death of Jesus Christ


arikinder: what about the differences between the 1830 and 1831 editions of the BOM


arikinder: pardon I mean 1981


scholarmormon: those climate changes killed some species of animals


scholarmormon: well, yes, I have seen some changes but they do not change the doctrine


arikinder: Yeah, that’s the problem


scholarmormon: most changes are to update the language




arikinder: You see this is my problem. You say that neither the Bible or the BOM can be 100% trusted. If that were true we couldn’t know what was true and what was false


scholarmormon: you can read the 1830 version in that website


scholarmormon: not really, God has given us the holy ghost to guide us to him


scholarmormon: you can burn all the bibles and books of Mormon, still the holy ghost will guide the believers to truth


arikinder: What if the Holy Spirit guides me to tell me that the Bible is 100% true and the BOM is 100% false


scholarmormon: religion is a personal matter of faith


arikinder: religion is but I’m not talking about religion. I’m talking about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.


scholarmormon: good


arikinder: By your own admission you have no word that can be trusted.


scholarmormon: the Book of Mormon can be trusted


scholarmormon: actually the Book of Mormon has the best account of the teachings of Jesus Christ


arikinder: I just showed you where it was wrong about the important fact of where Jesus was born.


arikinder: a fact that would have made him invalid as Messiah if the BOM were true


scholarmormon: this is pretty interesting, we could change that, but we didn’t


scholarmormon: I don’t see why you say that about Jesus not being the Messiah if the BOM were true


scholarmormon: could you explain more?


arikinder: I really don’t mean this as a debate point, but why the heck didn’t they change that


arikinder: I would have


arikinder: Sorry, that was personal opinion there


scholarmormon: still, I want to know your personal opinion


scholarmormon: the Book of Mormon testifies hundreds of times that Jesus is the Messiah


scholarmormon: in those words


arikinder: I know


arikinder: May I make a point


scholarmormon: sure


scholarmormon: I want you to


arikinder: If I were to write a book that says I was born in America, not Jewish, never died on the cross but i was the Messiah - would you believe it?


scholarmormon: no, I wouldn’t, but the Book of Mormon does not teach such things


arikinder: I know


arikinder: Just give me a second


arikinder: Of course you wouldn’t because I just contradicted what the Messianic prophecies say


arikinder: Since the prophecies say that the Messiah will be born in Bethlehem, the BOM presents a major problem


scholarmormon: can you give me the quote where it says where Jesus was going to be born ? in the BOM?


scholarmormon: let me find it


arikinder: sure Micah 5:2


scholarmormon: in the book of mormon


arikinder: keep in mind that Micah 5:2 is regarded as Messianic prophecy by Jews and Gentiles alike


arikinder: oh, hold on and Ill give you the verse in the BOM


scholarmormon: cool


arikinder: Alma 7:10


scholarmormon: thanks, let me read it


arikinder: No problem


scholarmormon: ok


scholarmormon: done


arikinder: Even if you disagree with me, can you see where this would cause me concern?


scholarmormon: sure, I can see clearly your point


scholarmormon: however


scholarmormon: you are taking the text out of context


arikinder: who so


arikinder: how


scholarmormon: that is making you a problem


scholarmormon: there was no connection between these two civilizations for over 500 years


scholarmormon: exactly 513 years since they left Jerusalem


arikinder: I understand that, but can you understand what a serious mistake that is.


scholarmormon: to you it is, but because you are reading out of context


arikinder: put it in context for me


scholarmormon: sure I will


scholarmormon: let's pretend that the story of the Book of Mormon is true


arikinder: ok


scholarmormon: according to that story, a group of Israelites left Jerusalem in the year 600 BC


arikinder: ok


scholarmormon: they arrived to what is called today America approximately 10 years later


scholarmormon: a lot of generations passed in the following 500 years


scholarmormon: when they referred to their forefathers all what they said was that they came from Jerusalem


scholarmormon: no other places where taught or mentioned


scholarmormon: to the people


scholarmormon: those people did not have any connection with the old world


scholarmormon: they did not know their geography or names of cities


scholarmormon: nothing


scholarmormon: the few people who knew more


scholarmormon: were the prophets


arikinder: ok, i follow


scholarmormon: and they also preached about that their forefathers left Jerusalem


scholarmormon: to a promised land in America


scholarmormon: well, they didn’t call it america


scholarmormon: so


scholarmormon: when Alma is preaching that prophecy


arikinder: ok


scholarmormon: 513 years had passed from the time their forefathers left Jerusalem


scholarmormon: these people were not like the people of the Old Testament


scholarmormon: that were familiar with the names of cities and towns of the old testament


scholarmormon: also, Bethlehem is only a few miles away from Jerusalem


arikinder: You'll have to excuse me but you aren’t putting the verse in context, your making an excuse for its mistake.


scholarmormon: right


scholarmormon: I am


scholarmormon: now, let's pretend that the prophet had written Bethlehem instead of Jerusalem


arikinder: Can you not see how that’s a problem


scholarmormon: listen


arikinder: ok


scholarmormon: let's pretend that Alma had said


scholarmormon: that the Savior was going to be in Bethlehem


scholarmormon: the first question the people had asked would be, and where is Bethlehem because we have never heard of such a name or such a place


scholarmormon: none of our ancestors never told us about anything about Bethlehem


scholarmormon: now. Alma would have to explain them more about Bethlehem


scholarmormon: where it is


scholarmormon: and why never taught them anything about Bethlehem before


arikinder: ok


arikinder: I understand what your saying but this doesn’t lessen the problem


scholarmormon: let me ask you a question


arikinder: sure


scholarmormon: where were you born


arikinder: Virginia


scholarmormon: why didn’t you say exactly the town where you were born?


arikinder: Doesn’t matter. Its not an issue.


arikinder: It would however be one if I claimed to be the Messiah


scholarmormon: hold on


scholarmormon: it does matter


scholarmormon: this is my point, listen


arikinder: ok


scholarmormon: let's say that I have never been to Virginia


arikinder: ok


scholarmormon: and I do not know the names of any of its towns or cities


scholarmormon: would it be useful to me to learn the name of the city where you were born?


scholarmormon: or town?


arikinder: It would if their were prophecy saying where I would be born


scholarmormon: well, the people Alma was teaching were unbelievers


scholarmormon: they did not mind the prophecies


arikinder: Ok


arikinder: But that doesn’t change the fact that what Alma said was false


scholarmormon: listen, if you ask me where I was born I would say in Peru


scholarmormon: I was born in Peru South America


scholarmormon: if you ask me where in Peru, I would answer Lima


scholarmormon: but I was not born in Lima, Lima is a big province


scholarmormon: I was born in a small town of 3,000 people


arikinder: ok


scholarmormon: the name very unimportant


scholarmormon: actually in my passport says that I was born in Lima


scholarmormon: but I was not born in Lima, I was born in a very small town a few miles away from Lima


arikinder: All this would be true if Jesus were just any man. But to be the Messiah He had to be born in Bethlehem. Alma says He was born in Jerusalem.


scholarmormon: so, if someone remembers me 500 years later he or she will say that I was born in Lima, would it be important to someone who else who never knew me or never knew anything about me the exact location where I was born?


scholarmormon: true


arikinder: If Alma had said "In Bethlehem, near Jerusalem" we wouldn’t have this problem


scholarmormon: but to them, the unbelievers it didn’t make any difference if Jesus was born in Bethlehem or Jerusalem


arikinder: But you aren’t the Messiah. There are no prophecies about where you will be born


arikinder: But it does make a difference because it isn’t true


scholarmormon: true, I am not the Messiah


scholarmormon: but that is the context of this prophecy


scholarmormon: now,


scholarmormon: a pretty interesting fact is


arikinder: Scholar, I do hate to interrupt but I asked you to put the verse in context. I didn’t ask for excuses


scholarmormon: having made many changes to the Book of Mormon we never changed this verse about Jesus' birthplace


arikinder: I find that very odd


scholarmormon: true, wouldn’t it be easier


arikinder: it would


scholarmormon: have you ever read 3 Nephi?


arikinder: I have, but I wouldn’t be able to quote it.


scholarmormon: that is ok


scholarmormon: I have read the Book of Mormon several times from beginning to end and still I cant quote it


arikinder: Scholar, I don’t doubt your sincerity but I hope you can see why all this is a problem. Paul spoke to many non-Jews and He never claimed Jesus was born in Jerusalem because He knew this would contradict the prophecy.


scholarmormon: true


scholarmormon: but Paul was not of the original 12 apostles


arikinder: These non-Jews didn’t know the prophecy either


arikinder: Paul was a an Apostle, none-the-less


arikinder: For that matter, peter spoke to non-Jews and he didn’t make such a mistake either


arikinder: None of the Apostles or Prophets made such mistakes.


scholarmormon: they all where familiar with the geography and place names of that time


arikinder: Peter and Paul were in Rome. Everyday Roman citizens wouldn’t have known the geography of Israel


scholarmormon: I will bring Peter and Paul to America in the year 600 BC to preach the unbelievers that Jesus was going to be born in Bethlehem


arikinder: If they said anything other than that they would have been liars


arikinder: What I’m trying to tell you is that if the BOM was true Jesus would not be the Messiah.


arikinder: May I ask a question?


arikinder: its a short and simple one


arikinder: scholar, you still there?


scholarmormon: what I am trying to tell you is that the BOM is true, the account of Jesus coming in person to his disciples telling everyone that He is the Messiah, the Savior of this world


scholarmormon: that is over anything any prophet may teach about him


arikinder: But He isn’t the Messiah according to the book of Mormon because he failed to fulfill the prophecy


scholarmormon: according to the Book of Alma in the Book of Mormon


scholarmormon: not according to the Book of Mormon as a whole


arikinder: So that part is wrong?


scholarmormon: absolutely


arikinder: Then I cant trust any of it


scholarmormon: Alma failed to give the exact location


scholarmormon: I would say you can trust the Book of Alma


scholarmormon: but that does not compromise the other books written by other prophets


scholarmormon: in other times


arikinder: Actually it causes a major problem. If one part of your book is wrong it brings it all into question.


scholarmormon: the Book of Mormon covers 600 years


arikinder: Yes, but it has mistakes


scholarmormon: the Book of Mormon has 14 Books


scholarmormon: written by different prophets


scholarmormon: at different times


scholarmormon: it is not just one book with one author


arikinder: Yes and the Bible has 66 but it didn’t get it wrong, even though it covers a much broader time frame


scholarmormon: true, but the bible also has its conflicting doctrines


arikinder: But It doesn’t. You've showed me none.


scholarmormon: well the evidence is that there are thousands of Christian biblical churches teaching different doctrines all of them based on the bible, and that is fact nobody can overlook


arikinder: There are different schools of thought within the church but Ill tell you what you told me when I brought up the doctrine of the LDS, I’m not talking about the church, I’m talking about the Bible.


scholarmormon: and I am talking about the bible


arikinder: No you aren’t. Your talking about churches interpretation of it


scholarmormon: the catholic doctrine is based on the bible, the Jehovah witnesses are based on the bible , the seven day Adventists are based on the bible all of them take their doctrines of the bible however, their doctrines are different ones, they contradict each other


arikinder: Again, that’s the same as me asking about your churches doctrine. You quickly shut me down when I asked and told me you weren’t talking about the doctrines of the church. You were talking about the BOM


scholarmormon: true, I said that


scholarmormon: the fact is that our doctrines are controversial with current christian denominations, but the teaching of the Book of Mormon about the atonement and the divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ are exactly the same than those of the bible


arikinder: They aren’t, because in the Book of Mormon, Jesus cannot be the Messiah.


arikinder: He can claim it


arikinder: but that alone wouldn’t make it so


scholarmormon: that is your personal opinion


arikinder: Scholar that not my opinion. The Prophecy says where he will be born and your BOM says somewhere else.


arikinder: He had to fulfill the prophecy to be the messiah


scholarmormon: the Book of Alma says somewhere else


arikinder: Lets think of the reasoning you gave me for the alma mistake, okay?


scholarmormon: well, I would love to, but I must leave


arikinder: naturally


scholarmormon: add me to continue our discussion


arikinder: ok


scholarmormon: in another time


Scholar Mormon: thanks


Scholar Mormon: it was nice to chat with you


arikinder: you as well


arikinder: I did enjoy it


Scholar Mormon: the Good Lord Jesus may bless you


Scholar Mormon is typing...


Scholar Mormon: goodbye


arikinder: goodbye